Dark musical comedy Bachelors of Fine Arts takes us into the underbelly of an elite conservatoire in NYC. Below, its creator-performers open up about the “unsavoury parts” of attending drama school.
If you reviewed your own show, how would you describe it?
Hope Johansen: Tongue-in-cheek, satirical, a touch of whimsy, and overall a romp. Stand-up meets musical theatre melodrama. Also, wow, how’d those two do all that?
Tell me a little more about your show and what audiences can expect?
Hope Johansen: Bachelors of Fine Arts is a dark musical comedy about university theatre programs, coming of age in NYC, and, for legal purposes, is entirely untrue. Audiences can expect original music with plenty of earworms, satirical storytelling, and a healthy dose of cringe, catharsis, and emotional whiplash.
Can you talk about some of the creative team involved?
Riley Elton McCarthy: Hope and I have been friends for almost a decade. We attended the same undergrad program and ran in the same circles, but took different paths after graduation. Hope went to work as a bridal consultant while my dreams of being an actor converged into a playwriting career. We both longed for the versions of ourselves untainted by the industry’s burdening expectations: when we were just making art that spoke to us without worrying about our future.
In that sense, we co-wrote and co-composed the book and score of Bachelors as both a eulogy for the young teenagers who were promised the world from our college programmes, and as a suggestion of optimism that you can go through something so traumatic and still turn out happy with your life, even if there are plot twists along the way.
We brought on Foxy as the director for this piece – Foxy met us through the London premiere of Ivories and was the best fit for the piece artistically and directionally.
We all shared an ambition to tell this story and speak out about the unsavory parts of attending a drama school. Together, we believe this story is universal for anyone who spent their late teens and early twenties trying to figure out where they belong and stumbled into all the wrong places in the process.
Where do you draw inspiration from for your work, both in terms of creation and performance?
Hope Johansen: I never set out to produce my own work. I’ve just been secretly collecting stories and writing ideas for years thinking, “Someone should do something with this.” And eventually with Riley’s encouragement and collaboration, I realised I was the someone. This show exists because the stories were too honest, too funny, and too painfully relatable to stay in my head. For years, these stories have mostly lived at dinner with friends, where I’ve been unknowingly shaping this show.
Looking at this production, how would you say it links to previous work personally and thematically?
Riley Elton McCarthy: Our first major project together was the original production of Ivories at The Tank in 2021. We were college classmates who decided to work together and struck gold… the show went on to 27 productions around the world, including one that went to Edinburgh Fringe in 2023. It took us years to find the right collaboration after…and that ended up being Bachelors of Fine Arts. There’s a lot of resemblance to when we first collaborated with the “characters” we are portraying on the stage: fresh out of college, scrappy, naïve, and thinking that no conflict could ever happen between friends when making art together. We’re looking back on the past and reflecting on the present, much like Ivories is interrogating nostalgia and loss, except this time we’re looking inward at our own artistic and academic journeys.
Why is this an important story to tell?
Hope Johansen: This show is as much an experiment in healing for us as it is an open arm to anyone who has raised an eyebrow at what was done to them in a university theatre program. I have heard similarly unbelievable stories from friends who also attended top-10 theatre schools across the United States. And at what point do we have to acknowledge what happened to us in order to protect the next generation of theatremakers? Nothing changes if we don’t talk about it. And I think we’ve done a pretty good job of wrapping those conversations into something funny yet impactful (and hopefully cathartic) for audiences.
What would you like audiences to take away from seeing this production at the Fringe?
Hope Johansen: I hope the audience’s inner angsty teen or gullible child feels a little less alone. I hope they leave knowing that being let down, taking a wrong turn, or hitting a bump in the road doesn’t disqualify you from building a beautiful life and chasing your dreams. At its core, Bachelors is about what happens when the people we’re taught to trust disappoint us. You don’t have to be a theatre kid to relate to that; it’s a universal experience. The bigger question is: do we let those moments break us, or do we choose to keep going and become something better because of them? I hope audiences leave feeling a little more hopeful about the answer.
Do you tend to take inspiration from events happening in the world around you in terms of your work? Do you think artists have a responsibility to respond to what’s happening?
Riley Elton McCarthy: This is such a complicated question for me. Every piece of art I make is deeply personal, and because I live in the world, it’s inevitably in conversation with what’s happening around me. Even when I’m writing about a single relationship or a specific institution, I’m really writing about larger questions of power, ambition, community, and the ways we treat one another.
Where I hesitate is the idea that artists have a responsibility to constantly respond to every event or crisis. We ask an enormous amount of artists while often undervaluing their work, underpaying them, and expecting them to process the world in real time. I don’t think anyone owes the public an immediate artistic response.
What I do think is that honest art eventually finds its moment. The best work speaks to the present because it’s rooted in genuine human experience, and the work that lasts continues speaking long after the headlines have changed. That’s what I hope Bachelors of Fine Arts does. It’s inspired by Hope and my own experiences, but it’s really asking bigger questions about power, belonging, and what we sacrifice in pursuit of our dreams. Those questions feel just as urgent now as they did when I first started writing the show, and just as important as when I grappled with them in undergrad.
Hope Johansen: I don’t think artists have a responsibility to provide answers, but I do think we have a responsibility to ask questions. Theatre gives us a rare opportunity to step outside of ourselves for an hour or two and sit in someone else’s experience. That experience can be as joyful and escapist as watching Rodgers & Hammerstein’s Cinderella or as devastating as Les Misérables, but both can leave us seeing the world a little differently. If we can take an audience out of their everyday lives and then send them back into the world a little more curious, empathetic, or reflective, that’s incredibly powerful.
What do you do to relax in August?
Riley Elton McCarthy: This is my second Fringe and my third time performing in Scotland (I was a part of Edinburgh Horror Fest in ‘24, shoutout to the lovely Ash and Theresa!)… so I’ve acquired a few favourites. One of these is buying a book at Portobello Bookshop and reading it on the beach with a cup of coffee. Another is wandering The National Galleries and journaling about the artwork on the walls. And at the end of the day, if I feel really special, I like to get a scoop of gelato on Cockburn Street. That one might be more touristy, but it makes my heart really happy, and I am a “you deserve a little treat” enabler. This time it’s really special; I’m going to the Fringe with Hope because my co-creator has never been to Scotland. I get to take her to all the fun places and be the tour guide. I’m elated for the chance for us to hike Arthur’s Seat at sunrise together.
How do you feel about the current arts landscape in your country and your part in it? Does it excite you and inspire you to keep pushing the boat out?
Hope Johansen: Theatre in New York has become incredibly commercial. Sometimes I leave a show thinking, “Who asked for this?” But that actually gives me hope as a new writer. If our stages are full of safe choices and familiar IP, then there’s a huge opportunity for artists to make something weird, personal, and urgent. That’s what excites me. I think audiences are craving genuine human stories, and Fringe is one of the few places where those stories can still take big risks.
Why are arts festivals such as the Fringe so important for international exchange?
Riley Elton McCarthy: I would be nothing without the international arts community. My greatest collaborators are from Denmark, the UK, and Iceland. The Fringe opened doors to even more friends made abroad and has led to lifelong collaborations from the first time I went in 2023.
What can the wider arts community do to get more people involved in their specific disciplines?
Hope Johansen: To circle back to an earlier answer, I think it all comes back to what we’re doing for the next generation. I’m not saying everyone needs to become a teacher, but I do think everyone in the arts can contribute in some way, within their means. That could mean advocating for art programs in schools, fiscally supporting children’s theatres so they can thrive, mentoring emerging artists, or investing time and resources in young people with creative ambitions. If we want the arts to have a healthy future, we have to nurture the people who’ll shape it. Just as importantly, we need to support those who dedicate themselves to working with the next generation, and make sure they’re empowered to do that work with care, generosity and genuine purpose.
Have you got your eye on any other shows that are part of the programme?
Both: We’re definitely going to see our friends in The Yellow Wallpaper, and our friends at Sharkbait Theatre in Hope This Helps!
What’s next for you and how are you feeling about the future in general?
Both: We’re both working on the off-Broadway transfer of Ivories– the show that started everything for our collaborative life and was my Fringe debut. After a successful and acclaimed run off-West last July, we’re really excited it’s returning to haunt the States. More to be announced soon, but it opens in November.
Riley Elton McCarthy: And I’m not reprising my role in it from the Fringe or London premieres. I’ve stepped aside very willingly for a really knockout dream casting in the role of Sloane. Hope is the associate director… and we have an amazing team. It will be an enormous treat.
Hope Johansen: I’m really thrilled to be performing in the UK for the first time and sincerely hope it’s not the last. I have my first feature film, Buried Secrets, coming out on Amazon in the fall. It’s a year full of firsts for me, and I am really looking forward to sharing my work across all mediums with audiences and hearing their responses.
How can Edinburgh audiences keep up with you beyond the festival?
Both: @bachelorsplay is our joint Instagram for our show, but you can also find us both on Instagram at @hopejohansen and @rileyeltonmccarthy!
Bachelors of Fine Arts, theSpace @ Surgeon’s Hall, until 29 Aug (not 23 ), 8.05pm